Thanks for the Forum

Eddrachallis Parish, Sutherland, Scotland and New York, New York
Post Reply
Gary Morrison
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:01 am

Thanks for the Forum

Post by Gary Morrison » Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:14 am

Simply a quick note to thank the team for setting up the Forum.

Although Group V is rather small, I am hopeful that it's members will be willing to be involved and to exchange information.

Looking forward to meeting you in the Forum.

Gary

morrisondna
Posts: 197
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:09 am
Location: Hendersonville, NC
Contact:

Re: Thanks for the Forum

Post by morrisondna » Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:36 am

Thanks, Gary. Group V seems to have very definite Highland origins, with matches with a Campbell, a MacIver, a Reade, and a McLeod, and the origins of several of these lines well defined. It appears these families were from Sutherland and Ross-shire, Scotland. You may want to invite some of your non-Morrison DNA matches to join you on this board to share info. An interesting website on the value of comparing the history of matches with other surnames can be found at http://www.scottishorigenes.com . This can be particularly useful to those whose family history is not as clear as yours.

As more SNPs become available for testing, it is likely that SNPs more recent that the L47 SNP already found in this group will be available for testing. In the meantime, there is some interesting reading re L47 and the "Ivanhoe Cluster." Here's one thread on another BB:

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread. ... uster-quot

Edwin

Gary Morrison
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:01 am

Re: Thanks for the Forum

Post by Gary Morrison » Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:49 am

Thanks, Edwin. Two questions. 1: what is the process for non-Morrison matches to join on this board? 2: if a member of a group, such as V, matches with members of another group, is that information made known to the member? I would expect that Morrisons in Group V would have matches with Morrisons on Lewis and perhaps Skye.

morrisondna
Posts: 197
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:09 am
Location: Hendersonville, NC
Contact:

Re: Thanks for the Forum

Post by morrisondna » Fri Jan 24, 2014 12:56 pm

Gary,

All of the Morrison DNA Project groups represent distinctive Y-DNA signatures based on at least 25 markers. We would not expect to find a match between a Group V member and a member of any other Group in the project. On the contrary, some project Groups actually represent more than one genetic Morrison/Gilmore family. This is true for groups where the members have Y-DNA marker values that are fairly common ones and the opportunity for match by coincidence is much higher. A good example of this is Group K, in which a high percentage of the markers have Western European modal (center of the bell curve) marker values. Because of the number of matches a person in Group K has at 12 or 25 markers, we cannot say that person is actually of the same line of anyone else in Group K without testing more markers. There are other Groups in the project with rarer marker values where we can say with more certainty that all members of the group are of the same line.

There are two good tests for how rare a person's Y-DNA signature is. One is the number of Y-DNA matches he is showing at FTDNA using the highest number of markers tested. A person with a couple of dozen matches is much more likely to be related to those matches than a person with hundreds of matches. The other is the number of matches who share the same surname as you. If 90% of your matches have your surname, that places you squarely in a Group; if 10% of them do, then more markers are needed.

The best way to see who else you match for yourself is to look at your matches at FTDNA using 37 markers. You can also upload your markers to Ysearch and look for matches there.

Regarding matches of other surnames joining this board, it should be no problem. They just need to come to clanmorrison.net/forum and sign up.

Edwin

Gary Morrison
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:01 am

Re: Thanks for the Forum

Post by Gary Morrison » Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:45 pm

Many thanks for the information, Edwin.

ianmorison
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:48 am

Re: Thanks for the Forum

Post by ianmorison » Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:09 am

Greetings Gary and Edwin, and also thanks for providing the forum.

I have talked to you before Gary, via email, about the possible match between your ancestor George, and mine being Hugo(Hugh).

I am still looking to find info about Hugo but to no avail.Some family history says born Isle of Lewis abt. 1745, but I can find no source for that record.

If I could find his siblings then I am sure I would find the connection to George.

And the date of his birth coincides somewhat with difficult times on Lewis that would cause them to go to the mainland, plus the story of the Bishop of Caithness.

Its all a bit confusing..are we Gaelic, Norse or Celtic...are we Irish..are we related to the McCleods..etc.


Have found the familysearch.org website to very helpful and free.Manged to find three new children of Hugo, not mentioned in family history, so that was exciting.

Anyway these are a few of my thoughts.

Best Wishes
Ian Morison

P.S. Can we get a smiley with red hair ! :D

Gary Morrison
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:01 am

Re: Thanks for the Forum

Post by Gary Morrison » Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:04 am

Good to hear from you, Ian. If your ancestors went to the mainland, you might want to join in on County Sutherland, Yahoo Groups. Some of the members specialize in that region and might be able to help you find Hugo/Hugh connections.

Best regards.
Gary

morrisondna
Posts: 197
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:09 am
Location: Hendersonville, NC
Contact:

Origins of Group V

Post by morrisondna » Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:10 am

Hi, Ian,

Here's a map that gives so me clues to the origin of Group V: http://www.semargl.me/en/dna/ydna/map-snp/351/

SNP L47 looks to be more Northern European than Irish or Norwegian. Some have suggested Anglo-Saxon, but there was settlement by Danish Vikings in Britain as well. And Roman legions could have brought L47 to Britain with conscripts from the Continent. This could go 1500 years or more, so the odds are that your Morrisons were Gaelic-speaking for hundreds of years. I hope this helps.

Edwin

Gary Morrison
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:01 am

Re: Thanks for the Forum

Post by Gary Morrison » Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:11 am

Pardon my obvious ignorance, Edwin, but what is SNP L47 ? I gather it relates to Group V in that it shows on the map you created a link to, with a mark near Ulapool.

Gary

morrisondna
Posts: 197
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:09 am
Location: Hendersonville, NC
Contact:

SNPs and Haplogroups

Post by morrisondna » Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:48 pm

Hi, Gary,

That's what this forum is all about --- sharing information and all of us helping each other sort it out. I'll use your question as an opportunity to give a long answer.

First, about SNPs: These are single nucleotide polymorphisms. It's a mouthful, and that's why they are called SNPs most of the time. What this means is that there is a single location on the Y-DNA strand where there is a molecule that is different from the norm. This is due to a random mutational change sometime in the past, but once the change occurs, it is passed on to all of the generations after that. This makes SNPs an excellent indicator of the Y-DNA family tree. If you have a SNP at a particular location, then you know for certain that you are related to everyone else who has that SNP (at least that's the general rule). Since these SNPs are unique, they have been assigned names to refer to them by, and L47 is the name of a SNP that one person in Group V has tested for and been found to have. We presume that others in Group V also have L47, but we don't know for sure unless they are tested for it.

Then, about STRs: From the beginning of Y-DNA testing for genealogy, we have been using STR markers for sorting out DNA family groups. These started out as 12-marker tests and have increased to more markers from there. STR tests are different from SNPs in that they are looking for a repetitive sequence of in the molecular structure of the Y-DNA at certain locations. The numbers reported for each marker location is the number of repeats observed. STR markers are also a good way of comparing Y-DNA, but are not as definitive as SNPs because STRs are more likely to be close matches due to coincidence rather than shared descent.

SNPs have been used from the beginning to report "Haplogroups" in Y-DNA testing, but in the beginning there were only a few known SNPs and the haplogroups were very large. They were given names such as R1b and I. These haplogroups were many thousands of years old and encompassed too many families to be very useful for recent genealogy. Just recently, much more detailed SNP testing has become available, and more recent SNPs discovered. These more recent SNPs are becoming much more useful for tracing individual families.

As these new SNPs have become available, more haplogroup projects have been started at FTDNA to help in sorting out the history of the families who have the various SNPs. In your case, the U106 project is the one to join: http://www.familytreedna.com/public/u10 ... ycolorized .

L47 is one of the more recently discovered SNPs, so the map represents a smaller section of Europe than, say, R1b, which covers most of Western Europe. To confirm you are positive for L47, you can order an individual SNP test through the Advanced Orders menu on your FTDNA personal pages. It's in the Y-DNA SNPs section. The folks in the U106 project specialize in SNPs, and so can make the best recommendations. You can see a Group V Morison result on Page 2 or the U106 results. It might help to look at the other surnames in the same section as the Morison. The next SNP test the U106 folks recommend is Z159, so you could skip straight to that test if you're feeling lucky.

Hope this helps.
Edwin

Gary Morrison
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:01 am

Re: Thanks for the Forum

Post by Gary Morrison » Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:33 pm

Many thanks, Edwin. I will follow your suggestions.

Best regards,
Gary

Gary Morrison
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:01 am

Re: Thanks for the Forum

Post by Gary Morrison » Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:14 pm

Hello, Edwin. Results show I am L47+. On to the next.
Gary

morrisondna
Posts: 197
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:09 am
Location: Hendersonville, NC
Contact:

Re: Thanks for the Forum

Post by morrisondna » Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:47 am

Gary, congratulations on the L47+ rest result! So far so good! Every new SNP helps fill in the family tree. Over the past few weeks we have seen many SNP results from FTDNA's recent Big Y testing come in. These results are just now being sorted out in various haplogroup projects, but they will likely result in many more downstream SNPs than we have had identified in the past. Probably the U106 project can offer you some guidance of the best next SNP to test for, though it may be a few weeks before all the new results are sorted out.

Gary Morrison
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:01 am

Re: Thanks for the Forum

Post by Gary Morrison » Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:13 am

Your comments are appreciated, Edwin. I'll let matters settle at the U106 site. I stopped automatically receiving the site emails once the results were released...it was a daily flood. I'll go back and see what comes of their impressive work as to potential next steps.

Post Reply