DNA testing - R-L47 and Z159

Eddrachallis Parish, Sutherland, Scotland and New York, New York
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ianmorison
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DNA testing - R-L47 and Z159

Post by ianmorison » Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:38 am

Greetings ,
just posting some info about the DNA testing. I had my results finally returned and have tested positive to the SNP's R-L47 and Z159.
A brief search on the internet would indicate that the origins of Z159 would be fairly recent, aprox. 2000 years ago, and it rules out Pict, Celt, Norse, or Viking, Norman, based on this comment from a site for the " Acree" family that seems relevant to the discussion on R-L47 andZ159 :

"... R-L47 is believed to have arisen in Europe about 2-3000 years ago and is associated in Britain with the Angles, Saxons and Frisians who invaded after the Roman withdrawal in the fifth century AD. While the group may have been included among the Germanic mercenaries who were brought to England by the Romans a couple centuries earlier, it does not appear to have shared the Isles with earlier inhabitants (Celts, Picts, etc.), to have arrived with the Norse and Danish Viking invaders of the ninth-tenth centuries, or to have accompanied the Norman invaders of the eleventh century.
As the result of a recent SNP test, the Virginia Acrees have been found to belong to a newly-discovered R-L47 subclade called Z159, which probably originated on the continent about 2,000 years ago. As more widespread testing occurs, leading to further discoveries in the field of population genetics, it may be expected that the origin of the Virginia Acrees will eventually be more precisely revealed - particularly when it is considered that our group has the advantage of sharing a rare, distinguishing microallele mutation that is unlikely to be more than a few centuries old...."

The general conclusion seems to be that the origin of R-L47 and Z159 is "Central Europe" or "Germanic" but I really like to think that my ancestors were Frisian or coastal fisher folk that move around the coast from the Netherlands/Denmark/Northern Germany area.

There is not a lot of information about Z159 as yet so any further info and discussion would be appreciated.

This result has cleared some confusion , seeing that for a thousand years, the area was in constant transition between the above mentioned races of people/invaders ,so that whose genes I had inherited was far from clear.

The Isle of Lewis and surrounds was abundant in fish and sea life and its worth reading the available reference texts mentioned at the bottom on the Clan Morrison web page.
So at the moment I 'm think of myself as descendant from the Frisian fisherfolk ! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frisians)

But if that's true then how did we become Gaelic speaking ,as the Frisians had there own language, said to be very similar to Old English?

Regards
Ian L Morison,
Melbourne, Australia.
Last edited by ianmorison on Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

Gary Morrison
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Re: DNA testing - R-L47 and Z159

Post by Gary Morrison » Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:45 am

Interesting results, Ian. I'm waiting for L47 results. Depending on the outcome, I' may go on with the Z159 test. I'll post then.

As for Gaelic speaking, German or Frisian origins don't make your ancestors any less Scottish than had they come from Viking origins....just another immigrant to the Isles!!

Gary

ianmorison
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Re: DNA testing - R-L47 and Z159

Post by ianmorison » Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:27 am

Cheers Gary, and good luck with your testing. :D

Gary Morrison
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Re: DNA testing - R-L47 and Z159

Post by Gary Morrison » Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:05 pm

Just learned that I am also R-L47+. So, on to testing for Z159.

ianmorison
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Re: DNA testing - R-L47 and Z159

Post by ianmorison » Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:34 am

Yo Bro, way to go !

Gary Morrison
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Re: DNA testing - R-L47 and Z159

Post by Gary Morrison » Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:37 pm

I just received results showing that I am Z159+.

Given DNA data showing an Iberian and Persian connection through L47, I wonder whether anyone has examined the possibility of a Moorish influence in the development of Morrisons, especially since St. Maurice was a Moorish general. Just a thought as doors to the past begin to be unlocked.

ianmorison
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Re: DNA testing - R-L47 and Z159

Post by ianmorison » Mon Sep 15, 2014 4:34 am

Hi Gary , just thought I touch base with you again. I see that you have your results for R-L47 and Z159.

Your suggestion for an Iberian and Persian connection through L47 is interesting as as the idea of St.Maurice and the Moors.

Where did you get this info as I 'd love to read about it.

Does this contradict my suggestion about the Frisian connection.?

Regards
Ian Morison

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shennachie
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Re: DNA testing - R-L47 and Z159

Post by shennachie » Mon Sep 15, 2014 5:34 pm

A distribution map might be helpful. Go to the below website, and select the 2 SNPs.
http://www.semargl.me/en/dna/ydna/all-snp-maps/
Chris Gillmore

Gary Morrison
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Re: DNA testing - R-L47 and Z159

Post by Gary Morrison » Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:44 pm

Thank you to both Ian and Chris.

I am not really attempting to provide a solution or, Ian, to contradict your suggestion about a Frisian connection. Your description may be prove to ultimately be the correct one.

From what I've seen on the internet, there has been much discussion on the origins of L47 and Z159, including the Jewish connection and whether Z159 automatically links into it or whether there are two separate sources. This debate includes whether the Jewish connection involves the Spanish (Sephardic) community or not.

Once one speaks of a possible Spanish connection (whether that proves to be correct or not), it opens the door to the Moors, who ruled there for approximately 700-800 years. So, I am simply asking a question about that theoretical possibility and whether anyone has studied it. By just raising the issue, I may simply showing my ignorance of the subject matter.

In any event, I suspect more analysis of DNA results and their historical/geographical relevance will be done over years to come by those trained in these specialities. That definitely does not include me!

Gary Morrison
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Re: DNA testing - R-L47 and Z159

Post by Gary Morrison » Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:59 am

Just a short addition to my earlier post. Other recent posts in the a Forum reminded me that some consider the Morrison badge to have 2-3 Moors heads and, further, that Morrison has been described by some as meaning "swarthy". At the Glengarry Highland Games in Ontario this past summer, one researcher described the arrival of Morrison in the Highlands as the "dark" phase, which preceded the Vikings. Interesting factors, but I personally can't vouch for any of it.

ianmorison
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Re: DNA testing - R-L47 and Z159

Post by ianmorison » Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:59 am

Greetings Gary,thanks for your ideas and comments.
Will keep looking into this subject to try and find some answers.
At least your results continue to confirm that we have something in common.
Am still looking to find who our common ancestor might be.
Just out of interest I was married to an African and attend a church in Melbourne with an African Pastor!!!

Cheers
Ian Morison

Scot1949
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Location: Raleigh, NC

Re: DNA testing - R-L47 and Z159

Post by Scot1949 » Wed Sep 24, 2014 2:46 am

The "three heads" are described as "Moors' Heads". They are the crest on the arms of Morrison of Bognie, and are best described as a play on words on "Morrison". In the years before Lord Lyon granted arms to Dr. John Morrison as Chief the Clan Society in Scotland established the use of Morrison of Bognie's crest as an element of the clansman's crest badge.

Morrisons acquired their surname in a number of places and in various ways. If you look through the YDNA project database you will see that only about 10% of our participants show Scandinavian roots (Haplogroup I and some small elements in Haplogroup R). For Scotland "Scandinavian" means Norse.

There are lots of "good stories" floating around, which must be taken with a grain or two of salt.
Bob Morrison
Raleigh,NC, USA

seven-nine
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Re: DNA testing - R-L47 and Z159

Post by seven-nine » Tue Aug 23, 2016 2:07 pm

In the Gaelic world, the Morrisons of Lewis and Harris are usually reckoned to have taken the English form of their surname from the Gaelic MacGhilleMhoire, 'son of the servant of St Mary'. It really hasn't got anything to do with the name Morris at all.

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