Group C Origins

Londonderry and Ballymoney Parish, Co. Antrim, N. Ireland; Massachusetts and Pennsylvania
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morrisondna
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Group C Origins

Post by morrisondna » Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:10 am

Many of the members of Group C trace to Scots-Irish immigrants from County Londonderry and County Antrim in Northern Ireland. They are a Y-DNA match with a Downie who traces his family to Lanarkshire, Scotland, so this branch of the Morrisons may have originated there as well.

1CabraghMorrison4U
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Re: Group C Origins

Post by 1CabraghMorrison4U » Sat Jan 25, 2014 5:37 pm

It has been extremely interesting connecting with my DNA Cousins of Group C and has gone beyond surface chit chat. Through communicating with the members of our group personally, I have learned many interesting things. One is that our Morrisons were in Ireland by at least 1700 and likely before that. Some in the group of the oral history that they come from Londonderry. My parents came from Co. Antrim, but very close to Coleraine, (8 miles west), Co. Londonderry. I don't know if we'll ever get further back than this or find a common ancestor, but we are always hoping.

morrisondna
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Re: Group C Origins

Post by morrisondna » Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:16 am

1CM4U,

This is an excellent opportunity to use the technique explained at http://www.scottishorigenes.com . The basic idea is to look for all of your matches with other surnames and note any surnames among the matches that are likely to be regional in origin. (Morrison is not one of these, as we know, since the name is found throughout Scotland and is not uncommon in Ireland.) Then you find where the regional surnames were most common and look for any overlapping areas. The overlapping area is then a likely area for the origin of your own surname family. This is because these families with different surnames were related before surnames were adopted and merely acquired different surnames a few hundred years ago.

In following this process for Group C, two Scottish surnames that are matches with the Morrisons are Downie and Hamilton. A search on the Downie surname came up with this site: http://www.downiesurname.org/downie-surname-history.php . The site links a map of Downie locations in Scotland that can be zoomed in on. Most of the Downies on the map are in the middle of Scotland in the general area of Glasgow. However, in this case, we have a better clue in that the matching Downie lists his ancestor as being in Blantyre, Scotland, in the 1700's.

A similar search can be done on the Hamilton surname. It probably will be found that most were also in the middle of Scotland and to the west of Edinburgh. However, we are in luck again that the matching Hamilton lists his ancestor as being in Hamilton, Scotland, in 1700's. Hamilton was the primary seat of the Dukes of Hamilton, so it is probably the place where the name was most popular.

It turns out that Hamilton and Blantyre are both in the Glasgow area and are less than 3 miles apart. So here we have two matches who basically claim Hamilton, Lanarkshire, as a home and two overlapping surname areas that support this. This makes it likely area of origin for Group C Morrisons as well. As the scottishorigenes website points out, the way to verify this is to find Morrison families who are farmers in the area and therefore likely to still be on the same land as their ancestors.

One other piece of evidence that we are probably on the right track here is that this area would have been a prime recruiting area for farmers who settled the North of Ireland in the Plantation times of the 1600's.

Edwin

1CabraghMorrison4U
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Re: Group C Origins

Post by 1CabraghMorrison4U » Sat Apr 12, 2014 2:11 pm

Thank you, Edwin, for your reply. This is most interesting, especially since the Downie member of Group C is visiting Scotland soon. I will pass on your information and encourage him to see if he can contact any Morrisons in the area around Blantyre. The big thing would be convince even one of them to participate in DNA testing for the Clan Morrison DNA project.
Colleen

morrisondna
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Re: Group C Origins

Post by morrisondna » Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:20 pm

Colleen,

I've had very good success in recruiting participants when I carried a test kit with me and got an introduction from my B&B host. That way I had the sample to take back with me.

Edwin

CDownie
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Re: Group C Origins

Post by CDownie » Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:46 pm

Greetings and all the best at Easter to you fellow Group C'ers. Craig Downie surfacing here. I'm very pleased to finally be catching up with you on this fine new site and can I just say many thanks and congrats to Edwin for his efforts and dedication to the Morrison Project (and you too Charlie, of course). It's all been a fascinating revelation to me and, as the cliché goes, new vistas have presented themselves. The new format is great and of great potential for information exchange. I'll be looking in regularly.

I also think it would be a good idea to swap as much in the way of pertinent genealogical info for our respective family trees.

I am not entirely gripe-free as regards your inclusion of Damian Downie's paper on the Downie surname. Damian is an Australian policeman- clearly a very good one with lots of resources. He has done an excellent job at tracking down his family. In fact, Damian has achieved, through determined detective work and good luck, a spectacular result thanks to his FTDNA results. It is important to remember that the paper he has produced is targeted on his own family background and is heavily skewed toward the rare Downie variant McIldownie. It may not be quite as rare as a '3r' Morrison, but it is pretty much in hens' teeth territory. I feel he also plays rough and loose by conflating unrelated variants (this is especially problematic given the -ie Scottish ending and its -ey Irish version) of the name. I would also tend to be very wary of coats of arms and clan/sept affiliations.

As Edwin notes, the distribution and density of the Downie surname centres on the region south of Glasgow. Damian's McIldownie results, and thus the thrust of his investigations, focus on the west highlands and Argyle. I can confirm from personal experience, there are plenty of Craig Downie lookalikes in and around Glasgow. I believe the area to the south is the very likely focal our point and, no surprise here, the presence our haplogroup in the region is more than suggestive of Anglian settlement (and, er, Edwin.. how is it that one sample from Blantyre (me) and one sample from Hamilton makes 2 samples from Hamilton?...).

As ever, it's all about dates. I would be interested to hear from CabraghMorrison more about the evidence for our Morrisons having been in Ireland "by at least 1700 and likely before that". The Ulster records show virtually no -ie Downies in Ulster. It is likely that there are some but that these were made into Downeys just as the Scottish records usually changed Downey into Downie when landed in Scotland. They are not variants of the same surname.

All the surnames in my paternal side are lowland Scots from Lanarkshire and I have sundry certs going back to John Downie of Blantyre b.1775. The line alternates between Johns and Roberts over the generations and line's wives' surnames in reverse chronological order include Pollack, Mackie, Paterson, Sorbie, Kirkwood and Sword. The region around Blantyre appears to have been home ground for them all. My records show my guys to have been agricultural workers, gameskeepers, weavers, and, latterly, soldiers. Weaving was probably the main non-agricultural occupation in the area before the development of the giant collieries made Blantyre the centre of the Scottish coal mining industry in the mid-late 1800s. None of my line of Downies appears to have been involved in mining. I have no documentary evidence beyond mention John Downie's father, Robert (B. circa 1740-50?).

And now--the right hook. Please, folks, I really don't like being referred to as "the Downie match" or "a Downie" and so on. This doesn't sound to me at all welcoming or inclusive and there really is no need for me to be referred to in the third person, ok? Thanks.

All the best to you all for now. All questions and comments more than welcome. Happy Easter! CD

morrisondna
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Re: Group C Origins

Post by morrisondna » Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:24 pm

Craig,

Regarding Hamilton and Blantyre, I suppose that three Scottish miles may be longer than three miles in this part of North Carolina. By the way, I have a David Downie in my line who was in the Atholl Highlanders in the late 1700s. I don't know how far his home was from Atholl.

Edwin

CDownie
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Re: Group C Origins

Post by CDownie » Thu May 08, 2014 7:26 pm

Hello again everyone. Thanks for the reply Edwin. I thought I would ask you if you would be interested in sharing with the other Morrison groups a couple of maps that I find very interesting. Although I have sent them to both Charlie and Colleen I don't think they were ever posted to the whole group. They are from a software package by Stephen Archer (www.archersoftware.co.uk). Stephen's maps also feature in a new book 'Surnames, DNA and Family History' by George Redmond, Turi King and David Hey. A good bit of the book, and lots of free info including their bibliography, can be read by clicking the 'Look Inside' option on the book's Amazon page. Although Redmond and co focus mainly on surnames in England, it looks like a must for anyone interested in surnames and history. One drawback is, however, the stinger of a price and I for one will wait for the paperback edition.

I have found the Archer software (which covers all names found in the UK in the 1881 census and plots them according to distribution and density) very useful and informative. Cheap too! I have the Morrison and Downie maps scanned and can easily forward them to you if you wish. I think the Morrison maps would be great for all members to see and might generate some comment. A similar mapping scheme is used on the free site www.spatial-literacy.org. All the best to all. CD

DinThomas
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Re: Group C Origins

Post by DinThomas » Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:23 am

morrisodndna wrote:Craig,

Regarding Hamilton and Blantyre, I suppose that three Scottish miles may be longer than three miles in this part of https://www.agilebuddy.com/lean-belly-b ... nd-results the Lean Belly Breakthrough post in North Carolina. By the way, I have a David Downie in my line who was in the Atholl Highlanders in the late 1700s. I don't know how far his home was from Atholl.

Edwin
Yeah that's a good piece of software cdownie.

falconb
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Re: Group C Origins

Post by falconb » Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:42 pm

Hello all. My name is Brian Falconer, I'm new to the group and genealogy and would be very grateful for some help with my Y Dna search for my grandfather and beyond. FTDNA lists me as having dna links to many Morrison's as well as Craig Downie and Kenneth William Hamilton. My father, Melville Falconer and I are both South African born whilst my grandfather, I understand was born in Dundee Scotland. My father was illegimate and never met his father. I'm trying to establish links back to my Scottish roots and would appreciate any help linking the connections to Falconer, Morrison, Downie and Hamilton dna. Many thanks Brian.

morrisondna
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Re: Group C Origins

Post by morrisondna » Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:10 pm

Brian, please join the "Morrison, Gilmore" DNA project at FTDNA. The Morrison, Downie, and Hamilton names seem to indicate a central Scotland connection. The specifics of your Y-DNA matches may yield additional clues.

Edwin Holcombe
Administrator, Morrison DNA Project

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